Jacksonautica
Marko Attila Hoare's not happy with Douglas Murray
posted by The Couscous Kid at 8/03/2011 10:18:00 AM
Wednesday, August 03, 2011
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- Journalistic Licence: Revoked
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18 Comments:
I still can't work out why it's taken so many people so long to 'discover' Murray's 'hidden' past. He's actually never disowned any of his earlier clearly extremist comments either - he doesn't even claim to be misquoted, rather 'selectively' - which is of course untrue.
I'm happy to see him highlighting that utterly reprehensible 'yay for the EDL' standpoint piece by Martin Amis's son too. Can't stress the utter wretchedness of standpoint enough. of course edmund standing is a big fan...
Did I ever tell you about the time I had to point out to Louis Amis (for it was he) that allowing a link to 'Israel Shamir's site to remain in the comments at Standpoint's blog was a bad idea. Silly sod didn't appear to have recognised that this was a bad thing, til I'd told him. Twat.
Chris Williams
Even before he lost his faith, Douglas "lets abolish the NHS" Murray was a bit peeved the Church had become "nothing but Greenpeace at prayer" - Jesus was known of his hatred of peace and environmentalism.
I don't think its not at all inconsistent that he approves of the EDL, they have the crusading spirit that the tree hugging Anglican Church has just thrown away. But anyhoo, neither the CSC or the HJS are doing anything good for the world.
Blimey, when Marko goes off to have a think, he certainly applies the noodle. Let's see, he learned about the merger on April 8 (PDF), and almost four months later, he comes to the conclusion that it was a bad thing. I hope he didn't charge the HSJS by the hour. No, on second thoughts, I hope he did.
OK, subeds and other pedants, which is the normal (or even correct) way to indicate David Cameron. I think I say "the Prime Minister". I not that Marko uses "our". Clearly factually correct, but somehow lacking the disinterested touch of frost that one might expect from a politically neutral adviser. Anyway, he quotes a DC speech and calls it 'fantastic'.
Whether they are violent in their means or not, we must make it impossible for the extremists to succeed. Now, for governments, there are some obvious ways we can do this. We must ban preachers of hate from coming to our countries. We must also proscribe organisations that incite terrorism against people at home and abroad. Governments must also be shrewder in dealing with those that, while not violent, are in some cases part of the problem.
The problem with this for me, as a very severe liberal, is that the arch-banners are places like Saudi Arabia and Syria, which are far more the problem than the solution.
Norway's been trying to expel Mullah Krekar for ages. Yet he's still there. (Love that sub heading: "Is this the man behind the Oslo terrorist bombing?" Over to John Rentoul.) Norway's best weapon against terror seems to be married lesbians.
Only by advancing the cause of sapphic matrimony can we foil extremists of all points on the political compass. I'm almost serious about this.
Now Cameron does say some sensible things, but this gets me: We need to argue that terrorism is wrong in all circumstances. I don't know how he can say that with a straight face when we're bombing Libya, and, in fact, supporting a faction which calls itself 'Islamist'. Saying "it's OK for us to bomb dictators, but not OK for you" is hypocritical, or at least inconsistent.
As I'm going out, I'll cut to the chase. Well done, Marko, although calling Murray's views "intolerant, ignorant, two-dimensional and, frankly, horrifying" is surely being far too kind.
I'll note that I know very little about the internal workings of the HSJS, so I find it odd that an organisation which promotes democracy not only does not consult with members on a merger, it only informs them after the event via press release. But I increasingly think of democracy as an excellent idea which, like Communism, has yet to be tried by an advanced nation state. (In other news, I'm probably among those Cameron identifies as having "real hostility towards Western democracy". I mean, Washington DC ought to be bound by its own laws -- in this case the 14th Amendment -- but somehow idiots who insist they worship a Constitution they don't even know the basics of, practically brought civil society to a collapse. It's all beyond satire now. Also, too.)
In praise of Louis amis I'd say that he at least allowed comments critical of pieces to stay up on Standpoint, unlike, say, Nick Cohen's own website. But that's about all the praise I have for Amis III; the EDL piece was a despicable piece of writing.
he learned about the merger on April 8 (PDF), and almost four months later, he comes to the conclusion that it was a bad thing.
I'd have assumed he'd have given up his membership when the HJS, which is meant to be 'pro-democracy', came out in support of Mubarak. But hey, what do i know about democracy.
On the Camreon speech:
We must also proscribe organisations that incite terrorism against people at home and abroad.
Appreciate this is old news, but the phrase 'shock and awe' still resonates whenver I hear this kind of thing.
I don't know how he can say that with a straight face when we're bombing Libya, and, in fact, supporting a faction which calls itself 'Islamist'.
I do find it weird how a lot of people are ultra-keen to identify any instances of tehleft 'palling up with islamists', whereas our own government identifying a bunch of islamists, some of whom aren't exactly 6 degrees of separation away form al-Qaeda proper, merits nary a mention.
Re OC's last remark, have a gander at Mark Curtis, Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion With Radical Islam, and you'll find that realpolitik leads to all manner of odd relations. The 'overlooking' of Islamists in the anti-Gaddafi forces is nothing new.
I've always found it fascinating that our Decents, with their keen nose for sniffing out the merest whiff of Islamism, conveniently overlooked the use of jihadists in the Yugoslav civil wars. But then they were fighting the Serbs, who must be the ultimate evil for Decency, so I guess that their deployment there was acceptable.
Dr Paul
yikes, see our mate Dougie on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wlSS61X9eg
'Robert Spencer is a very brilliant scholar'... EDL are good... and guess who's alongside him - Nick Cohen. it's really embarrassing.
also, Nick's stopped bothering to write TV reivews:
http://www.standpointmag.co.uk/node/4003/full
At about three minutes in, he talks about people judging "white, middle-aged men" (my emphasis) more harshly than the way they judge radical Islam. He then gives an example: the EDL. But all the video and photographic evidence I've seen on the EDL show them to be quite young and violent looking; not staid and middle aged.
IMO, what people say about the EDL is roughly, "they're a bunch of hooligans looking for any excuse for a fight." That's not inverse racism or giving them an unnecessarily hard time.
Does anyone know of photographs of EDL signs saying thinks like "Sharia Law discriminates against women"?
Perhaps the EDL is most concerned about Islam because if Britain did actually come to be ruled under Sharia law, its members wouldn't be able to go out and get Brahmsed every weekend.
Piggeries
I'd have assumed he'd have given up his membership when the HJS, which is meant to be 'pro-democracy', came out in support of Mubarak.
I hear that quite a few members of H'S'JS threatened to do exactly this, hence the reverse-ferret a week later.
Mind you, if you join a society named after Henry Jackson, and then get all surprised that it is sympathetic to the views of people who believe that minority groups are a fifth column in our midst who need to be systematically discriminated against, you can hardly say that you weren't warned! Scoop was not only an enthusiastic supporter of the internment of Japanese-Americans, but believed that they should never again, even after the War, be allowed to live in the Pacific Northwest coast, as their loyalty would always be under suspicion.
At about three minutes in, he talks about people judging "white, middle-aged men" (my emphasis) more harshly than the way they judge radical Islam. He then gives an example: the EDL. But all the video and photographic evidence I've seen on the EDL show them to be quite young and violent looking; not staid and middle aged.
yeh, they're a fairly young movement, at least 'on the battlefield'.
Surely one of the principle problems with DM's approach is his idea that when white British people join extremist groups, we have to be sympathetic and understanding as they're surely not all bad people; but as for those Palestinians who decided to vote Hamas as a protest...
Does anyone know of photographs of EDL signs saying thinks like "Sharia Law discriminates against women"?
I've seen a few. But not many - the vast majority have banners saying 'no mosques', or 'no sharia', as they hitler salute:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/images/809_590.jpg
It's also very clear that the people running the EDL have consistently tried to place 'non-controversial' banners in front of the press, so people like DM and Louis Amis can claim they're somehow moderate. It's odd to see an openly gay man embracing fascist football hooligans but, hey, as long as temuzlimz are the ones being most heavily protested... Even weirder is the way that nick cohen seems happy to let Murray wank on in his (imo) borderline deranged manner against 'the left' per se.
incidentally, are we still in agreement that Nick writes the Ratbiter columns? I bought the Eye today and it looks like our old chum Ratbiter has once again only looked at the side of the story which fits in with his prejudices, and has consequently seized on someone 'misusing the libel laws' who turns out to have been totally vindicated in suing for libel. poor old Ratbiter.
OMG, Murray is on "Any Questions" this evening. It's bad enough with Mad Mel.
Michael Gove is a signatory to principles of HJS, surely as a Cabinet Minister he must be considering his position?
By the way, this post is a disgusting personal insult to Marko; if we had any shred of humanity or morality in us we would not bring up his membership of the Henry "Scoop" Jackson Society. The HJS is a thoroughly disgusting organisation to which he was proud to belong and which must never be mentioned again. etc etc cont p94 ....
Man finds an iffy right-wing organisation a bit iffy. There's a thing.
OMG, Murray is on "Any Questions" this evening.
Or, in the words of Aaro (who he?) on Twitter:
"Rather a good #bbcaq today. Two of our cleverer MPs, an entertaining SNP guy and Douglas Murray."
The clever MPs were Rory Stewart and Gisela Stuart. Dear God.
Maybe we need a new award ("The Kiss of Cohen"?) for the worst timing of opinions: "When will there be riots?" while Tottenham burns.
"Section Director for the European Neighbourhood"
I have always loved that title - makes him sound like a general in WWII.
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