Monday, March 17, 2008

HP Sauce in the twilight zone

I guess I ought not to be surprised by Harry's Place. After all, it's a bit strange to think of the site that brought us "anti-semitic pizza" jumping the shark. But even so, I was a bit shocked to see that they are now featuring guest posts by Paul Bogdanor. Did they have a browse around Bogdanor's site first?


Anonymous Anonymous said...

I dunno, HP are pretty much with him on Chomsky, in fact they have gone so far as suggesting that he should be deined entry to the UK like Qaradawi for some reason to do with inciting hatred, although they tend to stop posting fairly quickly for any actual evidence of that.

And their line on Israel is near-identical too; they'll believe, and post, anything which paints Palestine in a bad light. The place is pretty much a joke; like Decentiya, they don't care who writes for them as long as they agree with the general sentiment of the individual post, look at the blogs they link to and some of the less salibrious parts of Bogdanor's website for proof of that.

3/17/2008 11:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't understand your point Mr Cabernet. Bogdanor's views are wholly in keeping with HP Sauce; hatred of the left (tick), hatred of Chomsky (tick), unquestioning propagandist for Israel and Zionism (tick), blaming the left for anti-Semitism (tick).

I suppose their only point of difference might be that that they claim to be "progressive"

3/17/2008 11:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well the Dude at least has a rather different view of Shahak:

3/18/2008 05:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

actually on scrolling down I see that David T does refer to Hitchens and his affinity for Shahak, but dismisses it as typical of the great man's foibles; so Hitchens need not fear a lifeime of being incessantly smeared as an associate of a "racist crank" in the style so dear to Mr T.

3/18/2008 05:51:00 AM  
Blogger Benjamin said...

Bogdanor's site is HP on acid. A notch or two more extreme and obsessive.

3/18/2008 06:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

by the way readers, we haven't forgotten about the exchange of letters between Aaro and Matthew Parris about the Iraq War in the Times, it's just that there is a bit of a global crisis going on and I'm busy.

3/18/2008 08:01:00 AM  
Blogger Matthew said...

the comments are good also for seeing Nick Cohen openly refer to Ken Livingstone as a 'jew baiter'.

3/18/2008 08:25:00 AM  
Blogger Chardonnay Chap said...

Does anyone read French well (better than me)? Bogdanor's site carries a quote "An enormous source of everything we've fought against for the last thirty years" with a link and text 'Neo-Nazi group'. I agree that the linked site is neo-Nazi (Holocaust revisionist anyway), but the actual quote was in French, "Une énorme source de tout ce contre quoi nous avons lutté au cours des trente dernières années". I feel this is ambiguous, especially so since every other link on that page seems to be approving. After all, neo-Nazis deny the Holocaust because they insist that Hitler et al just wanted to clear the Jews somewhere else - to their own country. They approve of Israel. It's internationalists (like Chomsky) they can't stand.

3/18/2008 08:50:00 AM  
Blogger Chardonnay Chap said...

OK, I searched that site for Bogdanor (using Google's site search), and it comes up with two pdfs search link; and I can't find Bogdanor in the second. In the first, they say "Paul Bogdanor, the publisher of this English translation is a fanatical Zionist. To him, Chomsky is worse than the Devil himself. His site is a collection of themost reactionary point of views of the last 40 years !!! The guy must be a comic !" So they don't like Bogdanor much, after all. But then, there's a lot of verbose nonsense on that site and Bogdanor doesn't seem important to them. Surely he has more convincing enemies than that.

3/18/2008 09:11:00 AM  
Blogger ejh said...

Does anyone read French well (better than me)?

Try Chris Brooke? Phil Edwards?

I've come across Bogdanor before, but I'm damned if I remember where. Some spat on LT, perhaps? He really is a couple of hinges short of a working door. Sometimes happens with the sons of well-known intellectuals.

3/18/2008 09:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, it's dear old AAAAARGH (is there a Yellow Pages for Holocaust deniers?). I remember their site being quite a comprehensive resource, as it goes, with some surprising stuff on it - chunks of Lenni Brenner, who of course doesn't deny the Holocaust.

The page is headed "News - spring 2006" and seems to be a roundup of all that's new and interesting in the wonderful world of revisionism. I'm a bit puzzled by the Bogdanor cite. Here's how they introduce a new edition of a memoir of a camp survivor: "On vend encore les écrits de cette vieille fripouille, cette ganache, pourrie de mensonges et de vanités!! C'est à ne pas croire." (They're still selling this old bastard's writings, like this rotten confection of vanity and lies! Unbelievable.)

They certainly don't hate Bogdanor in the same way. Indeed, parts of his site I'd expect them to find quite congenial - he seems far more anti-Communist than anti-Fascist. I did wonder if what they were actually saying was that his site was a great source on what they'd been fighting, etc.

But I think it's simpler to assume that their reason for disliking Bogdanor overrides larger political positions, as with their reason for liking Brenner. (Begins with Z.)

3/18/2008 03:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He really is a couple of hinges short of a working door. Sometimes happens with the sons of well-known intellectuals.

You couldn't possibly be thinking of who I'm thinking of?

3/18/2008 03:26:00 PM  
Blogger cian said...


3/18/2008 04:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, Vernon, but there were a couple of other sons of well-known intellectuals who leapt to mind.

3/18/2008 05:04:00 PM  
Blogger Larry Teabag said...

Mr T also provides an approving link to Shmueli Boteach too - a wingnut, creationist, idiot, and all round pain in the butt. Truly the line between the decent left and the loony right grows ever finer...

3/18/2008 05:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've come across Bogdanor before, but I'm damned if I remember where.

If you can face it and have some time to waste, check out:
StuartA, mainly, arguing against the HP pack in full cry, with Bogdanor Junior emerging as the leading voice. I remember that the comments were closed shortly after B had promised a final devastating riposte. Looking now at the archive, he must have implored HP to reopen the thread -- and it was reopened.


3/18/2008 10:20:00 PM  
Blogger ejh said...

and have some time to waste


If you can face it


3/19/2008 09:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

my god, i read it all! it's actually very revealing when it comes to that ponce Kamm.

towards the end David T emerges as the 'voice of reason', in the sense that he is capable of following a rational argument.


3/20/2008 01:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love Brownie's increasingly deranged attacks on Johann Hari too. He seems to hate Hari so much he will even defend George Galloway's creationism (he made an utter fool of himself there) and Bill Clinton's execution of a retarded black man when Hari condemns them. Bizarre.

3/21/2008 01:03:00 AM  
Blogger StuartA said...

my god, i read it all! it's actually very revealing when it comes to that ponce Kamm.

I think that qualifies you for some kind of medal! The most obvious thing that exchange illustrated was the pointlessness of debating anything at Harry's Place.

But if you have the hours to spare, it does show a) that Bogdanor is a loon (exhibit A: "Brobdingnagian gyrations") and b) when Kamm knows he can't defend something he'll resort to almost any pretext to avoid admitting this.

3/21/2008 07:59:00 PM  

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